September 16, 2017 4 Comments
You’re building along when a nipple runs out of spoke thread. You feel an increase in friction as unthreaded spoke shaft encounters nipple threads. This can occur with a slightly too long spoke (or too small rim). What to do? Consider turning the nipple further into this stiff zone. Why?
1/ Nipples are softer metal (brass and aluminum) than spokes (steel) and their threads yield with minimal resistance. Also, spoke thread is rolled so peaks are above the spoke surface and valleys, below. When the nipple encounters the spoke shaft, only 1/2 of its thread must yield; far less interference than between two machined threads.
2/ Spoke threading, as with most thread forms, carries the entire tension load on 3 or 4 threads. The rest are available but not load bearing. Driving a nipple down a spoke a few turns past threading has inconsequential effect on load carrying capacity.
3/ Testing shows that nipples support spoke threads. When a few spoke threads are not engaged and when the spoke endures riding induced load cycles, fracture can occur in those empty threads. Full engagement increases spoke fatigue life for thread fracture. It would be an enlightened building strategy that forced all nipples to be turned further so no spoke threads were empty.
Another option is making only 6mm of thread on your spoke so that when it comes flush with the nipple top, spoke threads are entirely embedded in the nipple—a great way to increase fatigue life.
4/ A nipple driven further down a spoke develops friction that helps prevent vibration induced loosening, a good outcome for any hard-used wheel.
Beware of excess spoke protruding from the nipple inside the rim, it may interfere with the tire. Otherwise, please remember the possible benefits of tightening nipples past the spoke threads. Not all bad, in fact, there are some interesting benefits.
Now is a good time to introduce a new product, a better spoke ruler than any before. This ruler is by Pi Spokes, a very interesting project of which you will hear more in the future.
Features:
1/ At long last, a ruler marked in 0.5mm increments. These finer increments are easy to read (or ignore). Let’s face it, spokes are not all made exactly to whole millimeter lengths. Builders deserve to round up or down with complete accuracy. Spoke machines like our Morizumi can also cut precisely to 0.5mm so a finely graduated ruler is perfect.
2/ The spoke lies in a groove below the scale so the issue of visual parallax is minimized. Lengths can be more quickly established, even in poor light.
3/ One side is for J-bend elbows, the other for straight pull. The ruler is made of highest grade aluminum, scale is permanently laser etched over bright purple anodizing. Price is $20.
November 02, 2021
Thank you for this interesting article. Do you have a reference for the following statement you made:
“most thread forms, carries the entire tension load on 3 or 4 threads. The rest are available but not load bearing”
November 02, 2021
How did it go after a season?
November 02, 2021
Okay. I’m trying it. I realized my spokes were all 1-3mm too long for a recent build. So, I ordered shorter spokes. All 1mm too short. This leaves the nipple head unsupported, of course. So instead of just installing them and relacing the wheels I looked around and found this article.
So, I’m going to leave the too long spokes on. They don’t touch the rim tape at all, and the nipples are fully supported, and I still have good tension in the wheels. No spokes are coming loose.
Based on having already ridden them hard, I feel safe saying anyone who has ever claimed spokes can “bottom” out when using steel spokes and brass or aluminum nipples is a parrot. They’re repeating something they have NEVER looked into with their own two eyes and hands.
As far as I can tell from riding along, (I’m 200lbs and it’s a downhill bike, my “just riding along” is most peoples worst nightmare) these are the strongest wheels I’ve ever had and some of the spokes are 3mm above the head of the nipple in the rim. Those spokes still have 10+ threads engaged in the nipple as well.
I’ll tell you how it goes after a season, thanks for the good information.
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Kristian Dudik
November 02, 2021
Hi,thank you for this article. My LBS built for me e13 hubs+ EX511 28h,Sapim Race 2-1,8-2,DT squorx wheels for decent enduro riding,but after som rides NDS spoke broke in the thread. LBS repaired and this happened another 2 times. As the spoke thread is not fully engaged in the nippple thread (2 mm let to engage), I think selected spokes are too short and this article supports this idea. I will buy 4 mm longer spokes as nipples will accommodate it or will be 1 mm comming out from the nipple. Hope this helps.